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Dibujor
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Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:45 pm

Disclaimer, a few days ago I made another post asking for help with some problems regarding printing results. That post was not well organized though and the printed objects maybe weren't the best to pintpoint the problems since I only printed the presliced models that came on the SD card with the printer. (Thanks to Rosparovac though, for trying to help me)

This time I've printed some dedicated tests and I sliced them myself. I'm new to 3d printing and this is my first printer so errors may have happened.
Data to take into acount:

Printer: Prusa i3 Mk3 (kit)
Firmware: 3.1.3-245 (didn't dare to upgrade to 3.2 since some people are reporting problems)
Drivers: 2.1.5
Slicers: Slic3r PE 1.39.2 and PrusaControl 0.9.4_415_beta
Filament: Prusa PLA silver, the one that came with the printer. 60º Heatbed 215º Nozzle (first layer, other layers at 210º)
Others: Have Crash detection turned off since I was receiving A LOT of false Y axis crashes

Now, the quality of the prints isn't that bad as far as I can see, only when you look up close. But it's not near the quality I've seen this printer can produce, so I need your help identifying the problems and how I can resolve them. Like I said on my other post, I still lack the knowledge to correlate problem and what can be causing it.

So let's see the prints (all are shown as links to Imgur albums to not oversaurate the forum):

1) First object is, of course, a Benchy. This was printed directly from the presliced object on the SD card. Some strange layer "banding", some denting on the lower front hull and some cooling problems(?) on the lower part of the holes.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/nVru3YY

2) XYZ cube from thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1278865)

It's printed at 0.1mm and 30% infill. Sliced using Slic3r PE with the Detail Pla profile without changing anything, so that is 35mm/s for external perimeters, 45mm/s for other perimeters and 170mm/s for infill.

Dimensions are accurate 20.15 on everage each face (ranging from 20.11 to 20.18 so within a marging of error accounting for my calipers and maybe not so steady hands). I can see some ghosting/ringing and some slight layer
shifting on the Y axis.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/zpzm33v

3) Calicat from thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1545913

It's printed at 0.2mm and 20% infill. Sliced using Slic3r PE with the Fast Pla profile, so that's, again, 35mm/s for external perimeters, 45mm/s for other perimeters and 170mm/s for infill. Only thing I've changed is
Seam position to "Random" instead of Nearest (and the result is PRETTY obvious).

Dimensions are accurate again. Lot's of zits and blobs all over the place and some problems with the first layer on one foot. First time it happens and hasn't happened again.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/lFlUJHH

4) Calicat - Again

Same settings as before. This time though, I sliced it with Prusa Control 0.9.4_415_beta . Set the profile to PLA Fast and sliced it. (So settings should be the same as before except seams this time are defaulted to "nearest" if I'm not mistaken.

No zits this time and no first layer problems, but layer banding (some layers wider than others?), ghosting and small problems on the face and point of the ears.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/knmUJt4

5) Test your 3D Printer! V3 from thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1363023

Printed at 0.1mm and 30% infill. Sliced using Slicer PE with the Detail Pla profile without changing anything. Since there's a lot going on here and I probably don't understand everything I'll let you see the images and judge.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/adudFZi

6) *MINI* All In One 3D printer test from thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2806295

Printed at 0.15mm and 100% infill. Sliced using Slic3r PE with the Optima Pla profile (gives you same speed as the others), just changing the infill from standard 20% to 100% (this changes the type to rectilinear infill).

Again too much going on, although I have to say this, to me, looks pretty terrible compared to the others, surface text is horrible and lots of ghosting on the exterior text.

Link to the Imgur album https://imgur.com/a/18Crv83


Those are all the tests I've printed as of now. I have to say I consider the Mk3 a great printer. Never had one and was able to assemble the kit and do the initial calibration without problems (I was overly cautious when assembling though ^_^)
I guess I just have to do a lot of fine tuning to get it to print "perfectly". With the bundled presliced models it did a pretty good job on some of them like the Buddy (https://imgur.com/a/9iBPjSD) (not withoug problems, though) and some pretty nasty results
like this buddy printed at 60% speed (https://imgur.com/a/snbza5B) that led me to deactivate crash detection

Thanks if you made it this far :)

curtis.c2
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 2:55 am

shit thats a lot. your prints look fine, my dude.

layer "banding" : welcome to the great saga of mk3 extrusion inconsistency. stay tuned.
surface text : silver makes it look worse but slow down your infill layers. assuming you're printing in normal mode at full speed
zits: normal restart/retract artifacts. play with coast settings and accelerations settings. not bad if you're at full speed.

edit: on second glance your biggest recurring problem is ringing and underextrusion on the top infill layers.
edit2: also don't ever use 100% infill, it just causes problem. actually there's very few scenarios you need more than like 30 or 40

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Dibujor
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 9:01 am

hey curtis, thanks for the response.

Yeah, I went all gung-ho with the post. But I though if I were to receive help it would better be a well organized and full of useful images post :)

Layer banding - I was about to post a comment (the forum doesn't let me edit my first post) about the layer banding when I saw your response.
Just yesterday I read about the issue #602 on github. Mine has been making it right from the first print (benchy was my second print ever) so I thought it was normal because this is my first 3D printer and I know nothing :D. Now I see it's not.

surface text - I was printing at full speed, yeah (170mms/s for infill acording to slic3r), thought the Mk3 was capable of printing well at 200mm/s. So slowing down the infill, got it. There are lots of settings I don't know when I should use if at all "only retract when crossing perimeters", "infill before perimeters", etc

Also, I printed with 100% infill because the author on thingiverse said to do so, thought it was strange but.... I guess it's because if not the surface where the text is would appear half filled? That's one of my doubts. The pinter considers top faces every top face of every surface regardless of height? or just the topmost faces of the object? I mean, slic3r does 5 top solid faces on every horizontal surface that doesn't have another layer on top?

zits - can you point me in the right direction? can't find those coast settings. Can only see this somewhat related settings, and the retraction related settings are on the printer specific settings. If this are normal and to be expected I think I was spoiled seeing some mk3 review, on Tom Sanladerer one he shows some perfectly regular and smooth prints :D

So what's the best way to correct those ringing and underextrusion on top infill layer problems?, I've read about calibrating the extruder and e-steps and whatnot, but a lot of people says it's not necessary on the mk3 and that Prusa has already done that.

Maybe I should update to 3.2.0 and configure the linearity correction to see if that does anything. Still wary though because of the problems.

The more I read and learn, the less I know.... :roll:

[edit] Also, is there a way to correct that drooping layers (points of the letters on the XYZ cube, holes on the front of the benchy...) that's a case of not enough cooling because of small object right? should I speed down a lot? or print more than one object to give them time to cool down? any other way? because I see those a lot (the underside and ears of Marvin...)

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nikolai.r
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 6:13 pm

3.2.1 firmware is a must on MK3. With linear advance you will get a lot better looking prints.

Overall you have a good start. My advice is to forget about all the test objects. Go ahead and use your printer for whatever reason you bought it. All the tweaking and learning will come with the real usage automatically.

joe.f8
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 9:34 pm

nikolai.r wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:13 pm
3.2.1 firmware is a must on MK3. With linear advance you will get a lot better looking prints.

Overall you have a good start. My advice is to forget about all the test objects. Go ahead and use your printer for whatever reason you bought it. All the tweaking and learning will come with the real usage automatically.
Just out of curiosity should I enable linear advance? I updated the firmware as soon as it came out but I noticed this morning that linear advance wasn't on in the setting. is it worth doing or is it something for just specific situations?

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nikolai.r
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 9:49 pm

3.2* firmware is handling linear advance command again. It's nothing can be activated or deactivated in the settings of the printer. It's part of the slicer config.
https://help.prusa3d.com/l/en/article/t ... r-advanced

You just need to make sure "M900 K30" command is in your start script. That activates linear advance for the printed file. Maybe it's already there in your slicer. Search for a M900 command.

joe.f8
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Fri May 18, 2018 10:03 pm

I'm a idiot apparently I was thinking of E-Correct being off

curtis.c2
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Sat May 19, 2018 1:54 am

Dibujor wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 9:01 am
thought the Mk3 was capable of printing well at 200mm/s.
capable yes. but physics gets in the way at some point and if you're interested in maximum quality...gotta slow it down.
Isaac Newon >>> Jo Prusa
zits - can you point me in the right direction? can't find those coast settings.
Apparently slic3r doesn't support coast...which is dumb. I normally use s3d but trying to learn slic3r and I'm not a fan of its profile organization system. Printer settings tab will have your wipe/retract/hop settings though. The defaults built into the prusa edition of 1.40.0 alpha 1 work pretty well for me at much lower speed than you're using.

for the other artifacts you're seeing, start with this guide from s3d.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... eshooting/
Tom Sanladerer one he shows some perfectly regular and smooth prints :D
Well Tom is a pro. The only really "fair" comparisons are the presliced demo files (benchy) and yours looks pretty good.
Maybe I should update to 3.2.0 and configure the linearity correction to see if that does anything. Still wary though because of the problems.
3.2.1 is current as of today actually. I'd redo the xyz cal since it was updated apparently.

I just rebuilt my x axis so maybe I'll print a calicat and see what it looks like....

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Dibujor
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Sat May 19, 2018 9:28 am

nikolai.r wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:13 pm
3.2.1 firmware is a must on MK3. With linear advance you will get a lot better looking prints.

Overall you have a good start. My advice is to forget about all the test objects. Go ahead and use your printer for whatever reason you bought it. All the tweaking and learning will come with the real usage automatically.
:) yeah, just thought that specific tests would be better to really know where my printer fails. I have to find something that doesn't took half a life to print until I can see if the changes I make are worth it.

In the meantime, having a 6 y/o daughter i've been having to print tons of calicats :D

I'm still wary to launch multihour prints because of the "problems". The more complex things I've printed are the gear bearings (success at the second attempt) and the iris box (half success, printed kinda ok but paused mid print once I saw this and I guess some layers are fused in the middle. Looks like it could work, it kinda moves but can`t get it to spin. Seems like over extrusion at the end of those layers or bad cooling... I don't know.

I'll update to 3.2.1 right now, recalibrate xyz (factory reset advised?) and print that infamous ecor tower to calibrate the linear advance.
curtis.c2 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 1:54 am
capable yes. but physics gets in the way at some point and if you're interested in maximum quality...gotta slow it down.
Isaac Newon >>> Jo Prusa
:D yeah, you're right. I have the printer on a table and although it's a sturdy table I can feel the vibrations on the wood when the printer is going full pelt on big infills. Thinking of printing some kind of dampeners.

What's a good infill speed? (since perimeter speed is already at 45mm/s by default in all the profiles). I mean, it's at 170mm/s by default from the theoretical maximum of 200. But on other printers I see people recomending everything from 50mm/s for everything to 150mm/s for the infills
Apparently slic3r doesn't support coast...which is dumb. I normally use s3d but trying to learn slic3r and I'm not a fan of its profile organization system. Printer settings tab will have your wipe/retract/hop settings though. The defaults built into the prusa edition of 1.40.0 alpha 1 work pretty well for me at much lower speed than you're using.

for the other artifacts you're seeing, start with this guide from s3d.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... eshooting/
After your post I read about it, that would be a good setting to have (distance from the end where the extruder stops extruding right?).

Although I'm new to this I feel like Slic3r while being kind of easy to understand , has a horrible UI in terms of organization with settings all over the place and the profile organization is kind of confusing (although it can be that I'm new to this of course). Retraction, wipe, etc is on the printer settings tab so if you want to change it for a print (and store the changes) you have to create a new printer profile, although for what I've read, it's a setting that is somewhat common to change for different filaments, so it could be easier if you could change it there, or at least having a modifier there on the filament profiles?

:) Thanks, I have that guide along with this one on my start page now. Sometimes I find it difficult to really differentiate the problem (overextrusion from overheating for example in the images I linked above in this same post) or not being able to recognize or know I have that problem at all (ie rosparovac mentioned my printer may be underextruding, and I don't see it does) so I wouldn't know if I need to calibrate the extruder or change the flow or whatever. I know that'll come with time and prints though. Just want to stablish a baseline of what a good print looks like now that the printer is new and it is at it's peak performance in terms of wear and tear, if that makes sense.

curtis.c2
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Re: Newb, Printed some tests - Can you help me interpret them?

Sat May 19, 2018 10:03 pm

Dibujor wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 9:28 am
What's a good infill speed? (since perimeter speed is already at 45mm/s by default in all the profiles). I mean, it's at 170mm/s by default from the theoretical maximum of 200. But on other printers I see people recomending everything from 50mm/s for everything to 150mm/s for the infills
Just depends on how your prints are coming out and what your tolerance for noise and vibration is. I won't go above 120 or so and 50 for the top layer. With gaps you have in the top layers and the details around the lettering, you want to look at the infill overlap and top layer speeds especially.
Although I'm new to this I feel like Slic3r while being kind of easy to understand , has a horrible UI in terms of organization with settings all over the place and the profile organization is kind of confusing (although it can be that I'm new to this of course). Retraction, wipe, etc is on the printer settings tab so if you want to change it for a print (and store the changes) you have to create a new printer profile, although for what I've read, it's a setting that is somewhat common to change for different filaments, so it could be easier if you could change it there, or at least having a modifier there on the filament profiles?
The idea is that you may only want to change filament types for example, so you'd only need to change filament settings. But when would you ever change filament types and not also change retractions, speeds, etc etc.

Slic3r definitely gives off that "free shareware from the 90s downloaded off a geocities blog" vibe.

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