root
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Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:03 pm

So I'm about to pull the trigger on the new MK3, mainly after seeing the MMU. Looks like a great alternative to a dual extruder. I saw a buddy of mines MK2 (no MMU) completely stock and his quality (and print speed) was so much better then my MP MakerSelect v2.1, even after I've modified it in an attempt to improve. So my question is to everyone who's done the upgrade on their MK2, was there any loss in quality or print speeds? I suspect probably not, but it's something I want to be sure of. I mainly print with pla/abs, occasionally exotic/hard filaments, and rarely flexibles. I've read about how problematic the Flexibles are but I'm hoping I can work it out.

georg.s2
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:01 pm

Hi root!

The MK3 is still on pre-order, so no-one has received a production unit yet.
However, speed is specifically one point that is supposed to be improved on the MK3 (new drivers, stiffer frame) and flexible filaments should be handled better as well with the direct drive Bondtech extruder. Print quality is of yet unknown, but I don't see why the MK3 should be worse than the MK2S. Maybe it will take some updates to the profiles, but the end goal is certainly the same if not better quality.

BTW, if you order the MK3 now you have to wait at least until January to actually receive it.

root
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:17 am

georg.s2 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:01 pm
Hi root!

The MK3 is still on pre-order, so no-one has received a production unit yet.
However, speed is specifically one point that is supposed to be improved on the MK3 (new drivers, stiffer frame) and flexible filaments should be handled better as well with the direct drive Bondtech extruder. Print quality is of yet unknown, but I don't see why the MK3 should be worse than the MK2S. Maybe it will take some updates to the profiles, but the end goal is certainly the same if not better quality.

BTW, if you order the MK3 now you have to wait at least until January to actually receive it.
Thanks! Yeah I know about the MK3 upgrades over the MK2. It looks like it will be a noticeable improvement in speed over the MK2. I don't have a problem waiting until January either. However the thing that finally convinced me to pull the trigger on the MK3 purchase was when I saw the MMU online. So I just wanted to know from anyone that has the MMU for the MK2, did you have to slow down your prints with it, over the stock/single extruder? Was quality any different? Those are my two biggest concerns, which I assume they aren't justified. I haven't read anyone directly comparing say single color print(s) on the stock/single extruder vs a single color print on the MMU and noting speed/quality differences, if any.

Thanks guys!

nathan.o2
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:58 pm

I upgraded from the MK2S to the MMU upgrade and have been regretting it since. I have not been able to get the quality out of the MMU extruder and am about ready to rip it off and send it back.

Nathan
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root
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:36 am

nathan.o2 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:58 pm
I upgraded from the MK2S to the MMU upgrade and have been regretting it since. I have not been able to get the quality out of the MMU extruder and am about ready to rip it off and send it back.

Nathan
Yikes! I'm sorry to see that. Have you received any help from Prusa or the forums? That definitely seems unusually/unacceptably bad. I'm hoping that quality/speed isn't a common tradeoff with the MMU... I may not purchase the Prusa all together, and go with some dual extruder.

aaron.s5
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:02 pm

root wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:17 am
I haven't read anyone directly comparing say single color print(s) on the stock/single extruder vs a single color print on the MMU and noting speed/quality differences, if any.
I have been printing with the MMU since the end of August. A LOT. My waste tower bucket is now about 1.5kgs.

In my experience, the MMU takes some dialing in, but the print quality is as good if not better with PLA. I have not done much else with the MMU (did some TPU and PETG prior to the upgrade). You can't get to the very low layer heights (due to the gearing of the new extruder gears) but relative to the same setting the quality is the same for me. Maybe a bit better due to the more positive extruder control.

As far as speed goes, in single color it is the same. In multi-color, you have the significant extra time of the purge tower. But then again, you get a four color print!
Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss.

If you solve your problem, please post the solution for others.

joris.m
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:17 am

I only see a huge difference in stringing, but maybe I can get that fixed. So no opinion as of yet, except for the fact that it's a lot more tinkering.

root
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:31 am

aaron.s5 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:02 pm
root wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:17 am
I haven't read anyone directly comparing say single color print(s) on the stock/single extruder vs a single color print on the MMU and noting speed/quality differences, if any.
I have been printing with the MMU since the end of August. A LOT. My waste tower bucket is now about 1.5kgs.

In my experience, the MMU takes some dialing in, but the print quality is as good if not better with PLA. I have not done much else with the MMU (did some TPU and PETG prior to the upgrade). You can't get to the very low layer heights (due to the gearing of the new extruder gears) but relative to the same setting the quality is the same for me. Maybe a bit better due to the more positive extruder control.

As far as speed goes, in single color it is the same. In multi-color, you have the significant extra time of the purge tower. But then again, you get a four color print!
Great, thanks for the input! Interesting about layer heights, how low can you generally go with it for a high quality print? Yeah I've seen how much the purge tower wastes, definitely a major trade off for the functionality - but I'm okay with that.

aaron.s5
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:39 pm

root wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:31 am
Great, thanks for the input! Interesting about layer heights, how low can you generally go with it for a high quality print? Yeah I've seen how much the purge tower wastes, definitely a major trade off for the functionality - but I'm okay with that.
The MMU can only go down to 0.15mm. (People have experiment with a bit lower.) The base unit can go to 0.05mm (which is only useful for very very small things - and really needs a smaller nozzle to be effective.) but the "good" quality is 0.1mm. The MMU does 0.15mm and 0.2mm which is fine for most of my printing needs.
Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss.

If you solve your problem, please post the solution for others.

marvin.b
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Re: Speed/Quality of MMU vs Single

Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:15 pm

The MMU can only go down to 0.15mm. (People have experiment with a bit lower.)
It can go lower. I use variable layer height feature and with thiis it goes down to 0.07, which is, in most cases, no real difference to 0.05. I even printed with the 0.15 mm nozzle from e3d and I am getting a stunning quality.

However, it took quite a long way until there: After the MMU Upgrade I had to cope a loss of print quality:

- rough/uneven vertical surfaces
- stinging

For example I tried printing a little M5 screw. On the Mk2 it was no problem with 0.05 mm standard settings. On the MMU, also 0.05 mm standard settings, the screw is not that good, but still okay.

The real problem is stinging in my optinion. This has increased dramatically since the MMU upgrade. However it is not a big problem because nearly every object is surface finished anyways. A little lighter or boiling water for PLA and stings are gone. Same after ABS smoothing with acetone.

The solution I may will work on when redesigning the extrudder of the mk3 is using an additional direct drive extruder so that I can print flexible materials and rreduce retraction to 0.8 mm again. Less stinging expected. In my optinion, that is the way Prusa should go with a may coming MMU 2.0 Upgrade.

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